And to continue with Alzrius’s basic question…
You’ve converted a number of Pathfinder classes to Eclipse, but I wanted to ask how you’d convert over Paizo’s latest big power-up for PCs: Mythic Adventures.
While the secondary progression mechanic (Part I and Examples) is probably the simplest way to do “Mythic” characters in Eclipse, giving the players a secondary pool of character points to go wild with may be a little intimidating. Still, there’s no reason why you can’t build a match for the original mechanics. It just takes longer since you can’t offload the work on the players. Thus, under the original Mythic rules…
A “Mythic” character should be treated as being about 5 levels higher than he or she actually is – and the Mythic progression itself is divided into ten ranks that require a LOT of story-awards (the initial catalyst and then twenty-nine more mighty deeds) to get. Besides the general wonderment of beholding the return of the ECL modifier, that gives us a +5 ECL Template divided into ten steps – and probably Specialized to double up the available points/the abilities only become available gradually, in a set of ten “Tiers”, each of which requires completing various quests. It’s apparently expected that characters will have a base level of nearly twice their Tier – but that also apparently isn’t a hard requirement. It’s just that you usually won’t be able to get in a lot of mighty deeds without getting in a lot of adventuring.
That gives us a framework to work with. As for what we’ll want to hang on it…
Mythic characters have access to a source of power that others do not – some occult force that allows them to resist the efforts of those who do not possess it and empowers many other special abilities. That power is measured in mythic energy points which renew themselves each day.
Eclipse includes a form of powerful mystic energy points that can be used to power a very wide variety of abilities – Mana. Ergo, in a Mythic Setting, any character who’s purchased Mana is “Mythic”, but most people never (or can’t) buy any Mana. When does someone cease to be normal and ascend to the level of myth? That’s up to the game master. In general though, only the player characters can successfully deal with Mythic Menaces – so we’re back to first edition… “Help us Player Characters! You’re our Only Hope!”.
To get a self-renewing pool of magical energy equal to the specified limits buy:
- Mythic Power: Mana 6d6+2 (23), Specialized for double effect (each point counts as two) and Corrupted/only to power template abilities, maximum availability of (Tier x 2 +3) points per day, natural magic must be purchased separately and for specialized effects only (27 CP). Getting it back on a daily basis calls for Rite of Chi with +12 Bonus Uses, Specialized and Corrupted (all uses are automatically expended once per day even if this wastes some or all of them, only usable to regain mythic power) (8 CP).
That covers the full mythic power reserve. You could break up the cost per tier if you wanted to – probably at 8 CP for the first Tier and +3 per additional Tier – but it’s certainly not important yet.
Mythic Characters and Creatures also get to pump up their attributes on the cheap. That might just be a world law – in fact, I’d recommend that anyone who wants to run a game filled with legendary heroes apply the half-price attributes rule – but they seem to get attributes even more cheaply than Feats (they can get up to +22 in total, although only +10 of that can be spent freely, the rest would go into +2 to each attribute). That’s a bit tricky. There are several ways in Eclipse to raise your attributes and effective attributes that are cheaper than just buying them, but most of them don’t stack with everything.
You could take an immunity to the time and effort needed to raise your attributes, reducing the character point cost – but I’d be REALLY reluctant to allow this one. Natural-law immunities go out of control very easily amd this conversion is alredy likely to involve several of them. Even more importantly, if you allow an immunity like THIS you don’t even need an infinite loop; you can just jump straight to infinity. I’m pretty notorious for helping people build any kind of character they want to, but even I’m going to have to say “No” to this one.
Since they have Mana anyway, this might just be Reality Editing; making yourself stronger, smarter, et al seems unlikely to be harder than creating a secret escape passage that didn’t exist before (although doing so in a stable fashion is probably a LOT harder) – and most people overestimate their abilities anyway. Of course, this sort of thing REALLY needs a limitation to avoid the infinite loop syndrome. It does fit very nicely though; their source of special power raises their attributes to superhuman levels as well. Ergo…
Occult Skill; Life Editing (requires Mana with Reality Editing and that the “Mana = Mythic” rule be in play. No Attribute Base, Trained Only).
Reality Editors normally edit situations and the environment, not individual living creatures – and especially not themselves. After all, tinkering with the structure of the body, mind, or soul with your will alone is all too likely to result in changes that will kill the being so manipulated without the ongoing support of your will – and everyone sleeps, gets knocked out, or runs out of Mana sometime. Once that happens, the horrible effects are entirely up to the game master. A Life-Editor has, however, mastered the art of making small changes so carefully that his or her merely being alive is enough to sustain them. Even better, when he or she dies… the changes will simply fade away harmlessly. While Life Editing cannot benefit from an attribute modifier (since that produces unstable feedback problems), and is most unwise to enhance (since, if an artificial boost fails, you’re back in “the game master selects the horrible consequences” territory), it can be affected by skill-enhancing feats other than Augmented Bonus.
In any case, a Life Editor may increase his or her own attributes, or those of any other non-“mythic” creature that lacks this ability by a grand total of (Life Editing Ranks/2), rounded up. Unfortunately, once such a bonus has been allotted, it will require months of careful meditation and self-discipline to reallocate it. Optionally, characters may substitute 6 CP spent on enhancing the target’s racial abilities instead of taking +1 to an attribute – but that’s up to the game master. It’s more common amongst monstrous characters though.
- So; Buy Reality Editing (Specialized and Corrupted/only for Life Editing, 2 CP), Access to Occult Skill/Life Editing (3 CP), Fast Learner, Specialized in Skills, Corrupted/only to keep Life Editing at (Level + 3) (2 CP). That’s a total of (7 CP).
Mythic Items: All Mythic Characters can spend “Mythic Power” to get special results out of magic items.
- That’s Reality Editing, Specialized (for double effect) and Corrupted/only to enhance magical items (4 CP). That will allow spending one point of Mythic Power to produce “notable but plausible” edits – which is quite enough to get some spectacularly unlikely effects out of a magic item.
Hard to Kill: Mythic characters automatically stabilize when below 0 HP and survive until (-2 x Con) HP.
- Well, this isn’t as effective as the (fairly common) house rule of not dying until minus (HP) at higher levels, but it is handy. To buy it take Grant of Aid with Spark of Life: Specialized and Corrupted/simply stops bleeding and extends survival to -(2 x Con Score) (4 CP).
Surge: You get to boost d20 rolls, rather like Action Points can be used to do.
This does look a lot like Action Hero at first glance – but Action Hero is a per-level, not a per-day thing – and, honestly, there are better ways to get occasional boosts. Thus, while the boost-a-roll option is included under Action Hero for back-compatibility, the real meat of the ability is in the more exotic options – crafting, influence, invention, stunts, and so on – all of which really SHOULD be available, but certainly should NOT be a per-day thing. To buy this take:
- Reality Editing, Specialized for half cost and Corrupted for increased effect: Only for minor edits, only for boosting the effects of character-action d20 rolls (not, for example, if the player opts to by a d20 hit die), the bonus is determined at random based on the user’s tier (1-3: d6. 4-6; d8, 7-9; d10, 10; d12) (3 CP).
Amazing Initiative: Add your Mythic Tier to your initiative checks.
- This one is a little tricky simply because in Eclipse – among the other attempts to limit the Rocket Tag syndrome – I tried to avoid open-ended initiative bonuses. On the other hand (since it was intended to have ways to reproduce everything in the game), that just means that the methods of getting bonuses are a bit less obvious. For this one take Augmented Bonus (add a chosen attribute modifier to Dexterity based checks, Specialized in Initiative Checks for Double Effect, Corrupted/only becomes available at +1 per Mythic Tier, 4 CP) with Reflex Training/Costs Mana Option (6 CP), Specialized/can only be used on your turn, cannot be used to cast a spell. That lets you spend a point of Mythic Power to take an extra standard action (3 CP).
Recuperation: Get back all your hit points after resting for eight hours. If you rest for an hour and spend a point of Mythic Power you regain (Max/2) hit points and any (non-mythic) class features that are limited by uses/day – such as rage, bardic powers, and spells as if you’d rested for eight hours.
OK now; restoring some hit points is pretty easy. Refreshing all your uses-per-day stuff is quite a bit harder. While there are a few things in Eclipse which will do it; all of them are rather limited high-order abilities. That’s because resource management is – or at least used to be – a fairly important part of the game (and to judge by the frequency with which people have trouble with credit cards and debt, no learning opportunity in this field should ever be discarded lightly). Still, once you make this a common ability of all the player characters most of it’s actual effect is gone. You’ve simply gone from “come back tomorrow” to “come back in a few hours” – the only real change in actual play being that enemies who survived the first fight will still be down a bunch of their daily-use stuff while you’re effectively down any minions you could have had since they can’t keep up. Given that the Mythic rules are pretty blatantly slanted towards “if you don’t have this tag on your character sheet you lose” anyway, who cares?
- Buying it simply requires another natural-law Immunity – in this case to Recovery Time (Very Common, Major, Major – to reduce it to one-eighth normal), Corrupted/only works on hit points unless the user spends a point of Mythic Power (10 CP).
Mythic Saving Throws: On a successful save you completely resist effects from non-mythic sources.
- This is an easy one. Buy Fortune x 3 (Evasion, Impervious, and Defiant), Specialized/only works against non-mythic creatures (9 CP). Why is that Specialized? Because in a Mythic game all of your real opposition is going to be Mythic anyway.
Force of Will: You can spend Mythic Power on rerolls or on making nonmythic types reroll.
- This sounds like luck – but the ability to force other creatures to reroll is definitely reality editing (if you wanted it to be personal only, just buy Luck, Corrupted/Costs Mana instead of uses/day, specialized/rerolls only – which will be a bit cheaper). To buy this little knack take Reality Editing, Specialized for Increased Effect (can affect other creatures and offers no saving throw) and Corrupted/only to force single d20 rerolls (minor edits), must be a personal roll or a roll made by a non-mythic creature (4 CP).
Unstoppable: You can shrug off a wide variety of conditions.
- Now this is a handy one; all that save-or-suck stuff still costs you something – but it won’t cripple you in a single shot. To buy this take Reality Editing, Specialized and Corrupted/only to remove personal conditions ( bleed, blind, confused, cowering, dazed, dazzled, deafened, entangled, exhausted, fascinated, fatigued, frightened, nauseated, panicked, paralyzed, shaken, sickened, staggered, or stunned), only one at a time as a minor edit (2 CP). Opportunist/may be used once per round at the start of the user’s turn even if this would not normally be possible (6 CP).
Immortal: You come back after you die unless you’re slain by an Artifact, Deity, or Coupe De Grace.
- This one is actually pretty iffy. Obviously enough, the primary way to get rid of a Mythic Character once they get this ability is a Coupe De Grace. Unfortunately, many players see an enemy making a Coupe De Grace attempt on their character as the Game Master spitefully targeting them. After all, aren’t there other characters who are still up that their opponents “should” be focusing on (rather than fairly sensibly making sure that some pesky healer doesn’t put a “fallen” foe back into the fight)? From those players point of view… a Coupe De Grace only makes sense once all the characters are down and the game master is closing down the game in a total party kill. This one… seems likely to result in either a) effectively unkillable characters, or b) ill feelings. Still, most game masters are pretty reluctant to kill player characters anyway; it disrupts the game too much – which means that this this ability makes little difference. That’s also why it’s a cheap one in Eclipse. To buy this ability just take Returning (Means of death; Coupe De Grace or slain by a deity or artifact) (6 CP).
Legendary Hero: You regain a point of Mythic Power every hour.
- Yep, you get to use your mythic powers more often. Buy Grant of Aid with +8 Bonus Uses, Specialized and Corrupted/only to refill the user’s Mythic Power Pool, only restores one point per our (6 CP).
That’s 93 CP so far – a fair chunk, but nowhere near the total that we have to work with.
Finally, a Mythic Character gets five Mythic Feats, ten Mythic Path Abilities, and two Special Mythic Path Abilities. I’ll start dealing with them next.
- [Emergence Campaign] Eclipse and Mythic Ascension, Part I (ruscumag.wordpress.com)
- Eclipse and Mythic Ascension, Part II – A Progressive Interlude (ruscumag.wordpress.com)
- Arcanist Casting in Eclipse from Emergence Campaign Weblog (ruscumag.wordpress.com)
- [Emergence Campaign] Skills of the Eclipse IV — Foresight, Governance, Command, Ninjaneering, Dream-Binding, and Secrets (ruscumag.wordpress.com)
- Eclipse: The Timewalker Packages (ruscumag.wordpress.com)
- Eclipse and the Soul Eater (ruscumag.wordpress.com)
- Edelbert, Level Zero Steed (ruscumag.wordpress.com)